Hawkline Monster 2

"A unique thought was now in the shadow's mind and the thought was linking itself up with a plan of direct action to take place when next the monster chose to move. 'This sure is a weird place,' Greer said. 'It ain't any weirder than Hawaii,' Cameron said."

There is a lot of repetition in this book, it really adds emphasis to what is said. The characters always mention Hawaii and what a terrible experience that was for them at random times and every time the characters decide to go kill the "monster" just to get it over with, they get distracted by something and end up putting it off. Also, I find it really interesting that the "monster" in the book is the light, while the hero is the shadow. Usually that role is reversed- most people associate light with "good" and shadow with "bad," so the idea that the shadow saves them all from the light is really interesting to me. The end of the book really intrigued me too- it had no fairy tale ending. All of the the characters went on to live normal yet unhappy lives and nothing special came out of all the things that happened with the Hawkline monster. I couldn't see any kind of moral coming out of this story unless its something along the lines of things aren't always what they seem or don't judge a book by it's cover... coming from the fact that the shadow was the real hero of the story- which I for one did not see coming when I first picked up this book.

The Hawkline Monster Part 2

"The shadow wished that it could look out underneath the door to see what was happening, but, alas, its role in life was only to follow and so it detailed itself right behind the ass of the Hawkline Monster."

The shadow of the monster is my favorite character in this book. While he is associated with that which is bad, the shadow possesses a strong desire to reverse the situation, and try to improve the lives of the Hawkline sisters. He spends most of the book thinking about how much he'd like to stop the Hawlkine Monster, but not being able to do so. At the end, he sacrifices his current life to slow the monster down enough that Cameron and Greer can kill it, which, to me, makes it the hero of the novel.

Hawkline Monster part 2

"The professor had given up chemistry and was now devoting his life to stamp collecting"

This is such a small inconsequential line, but it struck me as comical. After all this drama and interesting happenings it just rushes to an end which is unexpected and funny. It brought the story to a light and carefree place. After all this and his desire to invent he just simply gives it up for something as mindless as stamp collecting. I liked that the story wasn't predictable. Usually the creation destroys its master.

"Greer and Cameron stood there watching the Hawkline sisters hugging and calling an elephant foot umbrella stand Daddy."

I chose this quote because I think it really brings a sense of craziness to the situation in general. Although it is obvious that their father had been turned into an umbrella stand, the way it is written makes it sound like they are crazy for thinking this. I also thought that it was kind of funny how they recognized the umbrella stand as their father.

The Hawkline Monster - Part 2

"The shadow of the monster had been turned into the shadow of diamonds. It also was without memory of a previous existence, so now its soul was at rest and it had been turned into the shadow of beautiful things."

While reading this story I didn't find myself particularly attached to any of the characters, mostly because the pacing didn't allow for the reader to really spend time developing any sort of attachment. Even Cameron, who, along with Magic Child, stood out to me more than most of the characters, wasn't all that captivating. I did, however, enjoy reading about the shadow's take on the story and its role as an extension of the Hawkline Monster. I honestly didn't really care all that much about what happened to Greer or Cameron or the Hawkline sisters at the end of the story, but I was strangely pleased with the fact that the shadow got a somewhat happy ending and wasn't plagued with the memories of its past life with the monster. The shadow's fate might not have had much bearing on the ending of the story, but it was just one of those little details that made the story a little bit better for me.

The Hawkline Monster Part 2

"It was very apparent that Cameron was not going to be converted to the geniality of tea drinking. It was, as you might say, not his cup of tea."

The odd humor in this sentence is striking, and made me recognize other bits of humor in the novel a little more than I did before. It continues onto the next page- "guiding him to his eternal resting place, a whole in the ground." These little bits aren't by any means laugh out loud funny, but I feel like they have a nice, understated quality that gives the novel sarcastic, humorous undertones. It helps add to the unique style of the novel.

The Hawkline Monster Part 2

"I'm sorry that this had to happen to our father's lifework but there are things that are more important." "Yeah, our lives," Cameron interrupted.

I found this passage to be peculiar because of Cameron's statement that shows how much he values his life. I found this contrary to the passivity of most of the characters. I did not feel like I knew the characters in the story very well and felt like most of them drifted through the story without much affect on its happenings. Later sentences revealed that Cameron was impatient after a long day and that was possibly his primary motivation for disagreeing with Miss Hawkline

cass ford & "the hawkline monster" part ii

"The shadow was very uncomfortable, almost sweating.... The shadow thought that it was going to throw up." -- page 160

The shadow being personified was interesting. It became the most sentient of all the characters by the end of the novel. And, when it was first given human attributes, it was unclear of what the shadow's intentions were or how it felt in regards to the Hawkline Monster. The other characters were readily dismissed and treated more as props in a story than multidimensional creations. The final chapter is a good example of this. I was actually expecting the fates of the human characters to be far worse than what they were; even perhaps expecting that they would be defeated by the Hawkline Monster.

I'm not too sure how I felt about the ending of the book-- to me, something just felt off about it. I enjoyed the first half of the book more than the ending. It seemed rushed, especially after the 100 or so pages it took to get to actually finding the Hawkline Monster. I hate to say it, but it was kind of disappointing.

"The shadow by now had given up trying to figure out what was happening."

I liked this sentence; in fact I enjoyed all the references the shadow. I liked thinking of the shadow as a creature of its own, helpless in that it can't help but follow along after the Monster. At first it is as if the shadow resists, not wanting to go along with this, but being tied to it and unable to break free. But as the story progress the shadow just gives up and goes with it, the way the other characters do. This whole "to hell with it" attitude is a prominent mindset in the novel the more trippy the plot gets.

Hawkline Monster 2

"The way everybody was sitting it looked as if they were at a picnic but the picnic was of course the burning of the house, the death of the Hawkline Monster and the end of a scientific dream."

I thought this quote was interesting because I felt like it foreshadowing the sad future of the characters lives after the destruction of the hawkline monster. After Cameron dives into the lake and discovers the blue diamonds I feel like everyone thinks that their lives will be much better from this point. However, we find out that mostly bad things happen to the characters, for example, Greer ends up in a penitentiary. I think this went along with the gothic theme of the story. The reader feels hope for the future and expects a happy ending but the gothic side takes over and we are left with a somewhat depressing ending.

The Hawkline Monster 2

"Greer was arrested for auto theft in 1927 and spent four years in the Wyoming State Penitentiary where he developed an interest in the Rosicrucian way of faith" (215).

This paragraph caught my attention because I had never heard of Rosicrucianism before. After I finished the book, I looked it up. Reading a bit about it, I learned that it is a secret society created in medieval Germany which focuses on nature, spiritualism, and the physical universe. It is also compared closely with Lutheranism. One of the pieces I read talked a lot about alchemy and reminded me of the Chemicals in the book. This led me to try and decipher why the author connected Greer with this group of people. The only connection I can draw is Greer's love of Magic Child who seems to represent nature and control of one's self. The medieval secret society aspect of Rosicrucianism also fits in well with the Gothic side of the story.

Hawkilne Monster Part 2

" The shadow by now had given up trying to fugure out what was happening. The shadow just didn't give a f*** anymore."

This sentence sums up alot of the motives in this book. Everyone doesn't really care about anything, it just seems like stuff happens and they all go with the flow. There is this "what-the-hell" attitude and now it's spread from people to a world beyond humans-to the shadow. The pacing in the book also shows that this passive attitude. In each chapter it merely restates what just happened with no impressive detail, just obvious facts. However, I think the blatency of the book is intriguing because it's a fast read and you really don't have to think too much to understand the concept which, in my opinion, is like the characters in ths book-simple and surface

Hawkline Monster

"She was tall and slender and had long straight black hair. Her features were delicately voluptuous. They were both interested in her mouth."

I chose this quote because I think it distinctly marks magic child's character. As much as it has nothing to do with what is going on inside her it has everything to do with what men view her as. She has respect for herself yet she does not judge. She is patient, gentle, and precise. Also when these two men are introduced they are molded as animalistic and primal. They are dirty in the sense that they are just hanging out in a whorehouse having sex with whoever without any cares.

This quote tells me that Magic Child has respect for herself and she values the task that lies ahead of her. It would be easy for her to seek attention from these men and to be needy for them to notice her beauty for the sake of being flattered, but instead she withholds. This quote made me respect her.

Hawkline Monster 2 (because I read it early and am therefore shunned by society)

"The shadow clumsily followed behind it, darker than the darkness in the room, more silent than complete silence and alone in the tragedy of its servitude to evil." - pg 158

I genuinely enjoyed this book, mostly due to its unique use of the combination of gothic/sci-fi/ghost story/western. The shadow of the Hawkline Monster particularly drew my attention. It can't do anything to stop the cruel antics of the real monster (a being of light, ironically), but it dreams of being able to control the powers of The Chemicals to please the Hawkline sisters instead of tormenting them. Here, the shadow is characterized as a clumsy fool being dragged along by the torturous Monster. Its sorrow reflects the static nature of Hawkline Manor - silent, alone, and at the mercy of the cruel light it had a part in creating. The shadow finally triumphs over the Monster in the epilogue, when it is the only "character" with a true happy ending. It lives in the diamonds, making them more beautiful with its graceful shadow and having no memory of its previous servitude. Perhaps it's the Gothic influence - shadow wins out against the Hawkline Monster of light.

"She had spent three months in Portland, looking for the right men."

I chose this quote because it made me wonder, what did it mean by "right men"? Why was she looking for these certain people? That all became more clear to me once they got to Magic Child's house, but at the time I wondered what it could possibly be. Right men for what? I thought that maybe this sentence had more to do with sexuality than anything, so it was surprising for me once I found out why she needed to find them.

"Cameron was a counter. He vomited nineteen times to San Francisco. He liked to
count everything that he did."

I chose this quote for several reasons; the first being the style in which these sentences are written. There are many ways to say the exact same thing that was said here in one long sentence, but it instead broken up into three short, but complete, ones. Much of the book is written this way. It doesn't waste time on flowery language or pretty descriptions or lengthy phrases; it's straightforward, it's blunt, it's matter-of-fact...much like the "typical" cowboys behave: if they have something to say, they say it. Otherwise, they're silent. The language here is very reminuscent of the "strong, silent" type.

Another reason I chose this quote was because of the content--Cameron counts things. At first, I was just sort of like, uhhh, okay? But the more I thought about it, the more I really liked the fact that he did that. People with OCD or similiar things are sometimes constantly counting or doing things a certain number of times--they do this to reassure themselves, as if using something firm and familiar as an anchor to help them maintain their grip on reality. So it is with Cameron and his counting. No matter how crazy this story gets, no matter what else happens, the numbers will always be the same, in the same, old, familiar order. Cameron fixates on this and uses it to grasp onto reality in this mad, mad world. When everything else is defying all natural laws, the numbers stay the same. One, two, three, four...

I like this book so far much more than the ones we have previously been reading. It's trippy, but it holds my interest more than the others. I like the idea of combining gothic and western, and despite myself, I find myself wondering what's going to happen with all this strange nonsense going on with these people and this house.

"It obscured the vision of the Hawkline Monster for a few seconds, knowing full well that if the monster were destroyed, too, but death was better than going on living like this, being a part of evil.." p. 176

I really loved this book because of the shadow.  I loved its hatred for the monster itself and I loved its selflessness in the end of the book.  It can even be metaphorical of a person that is caught in the shadow of someone evil, but can do nothing about it.  It can be frustrating to do exactly what the evil person does, and it can drive one crazy when he can do nothing about the entire thing.  I think that that's one of the things that drives the shadow crazy; the Monster is doing all of these horrible things and the shadow has no control over its actions or choices.  Being a shadow, it can only follow the Monster around and mimic what it does. Therefore, in the end when it rebels against the Monster, it is an amazing victory for the underdog.  I loved the ending of this book.

The Hawkline Monster

“The Indian girl travelled with them. They spent a great deal of time looking at her because she was very pretty.”

I thought this passage really summarized the characters feelings toward each other in the book as well as the writing style itself. The characters are very sexually charged and mainly recognize each other as sexual things. This is similar to the writing style in that it is very blunt and does not shy away from accurate descriptions. If the characters were more subtle they would not have stared at the girl during most of the travel. I find it surprising that the characters are not apologetic for the way they act and give in to their desires.

Hawkline Monster

"Magic Child was watching Greer stare at her breasts. She was imagining Greer touching them with his casually powerful-looking hands. She was excited and pleased inside of herself, knowing that she would be fucking Greer before the day was gone."

It didn't seem like Magic Child was interested in Greer, let alone in having sex with him. She seemed like an innocent character when she is first introduced. I have to say it is a little unsettling to be reading about grown men having sex with girls fourteen years of age. If Magic Child really is fifteen, I find it disturbing that she has has sex with so many men- including one in his sixties. Also, how blunt she is with Greer and Cameron. Not easy to picture a fifteen year old saying "fuck me" to grown men.

The Hawkline Monster, Part 1

"She was wearing a heavy winter coat."

Clothing seems to play an important role in this novel. Magic Child's unique clothing is repeatedly pointed out, and both Miss Hawklines are said to have become nude at some point. Miss Hawkline is said to be wearing a winter coat in this part of the novel, which is because of the ice caves underneath the house. Is clothing really that important to the author, that it is emphasized this much?

Hawkline Monster 1

"The Death of Magic Child"

I was taken aback by the title of this chapter, since the book hadn't even reached the main plot yet. A character dies? And the author announced it in the chapter name? Of course, Magic Child only really died in spirit after she became a copy of Miss Hawkline, but the other characters still refer directly to her "death." I suppose it's a testament to the author's blunt, somewhat satirical style that such an event is handled so nonchalantly. It's easily the most fantastical element in the story so far, if the mere mention of ice monster doesn't take that prize. Maybe I'd call myself a fan of this book. It gets right to the point in common, sometimes vulgar (and grammatically derpy - using second person in a third person narrative? RAAAAGGGEE!!!) language and explains such a mash-up of genres in a nonplussed way that I don't believe many other stories could pull off. It's an aggressive simplicity that works surprisingly well.

The HawklIne Monster

"It was very difficult for the shadow to pretend that it was gravy but it worked hard at the performance and sort of pulled it off."

This quote reveals the dry humor that characterizes the entire short story. It is definitely the first time I have read a story written in such a unique comic style. When I started reading I thought that the story would be a more serious one rather, it was quite comedic in its telling and entertaining to read.

As for the creativity of the quote, it likens the shadow to an actor in a play. Throughout the story Brautigan uses juxtaposing comparisons to create humor. I found many of them, including this one, to be clever rather than a more slapstick sort of humor, which I appreciate.

cass ford & "the hawkline monster" part i

"'Hawaii's a dumb thing to bring up in this conversation. These women have a problem,' Greer said. 'They paid us their money to take care of it and let's get on with it and I know you hate Hawaii because I was standing right beside you on the fucking place. I know you remember that because you remember every fucking thing.'" -- page 91

I find this quote to be pretty funny considering the nature of this book. The amount of time the story is taking to tell juxtaposed with the clipped, matter-of-fact language used to tell it in is interesting. Greer's quote adds a layer of self-awareness to the text and how the story is being told. This quote isn't the only time either Greer or Cameron says they need to go kill the monster and stop talking about it.

On another note, I really like this novel and the style in which Brautigan writes. He has a very distinct voice and is entertaining in the manner he tells the story. I'm interested to see where this book is going. Personally, I don't trust either of the Miss Hawklines and I certainly don't see things turning out as the characters are planning, but I have no expectations as to what will happen. Any predictions I have would probably turn out to be wrong anyway.

The Hawkline Monster - Part 1

"You sure are 1 pretty girl," Cameron said.

Cameron stands out for me because, unlike the other characters, he doesn't just wander through life without paying attention to what he's seeing. He catalogs his experiences by counting seemingly meaningless things, a trait apparently only Greer is capable of interpreting. To us, these numbers are pointless, a waste of time, but to Cameron they're like signposts on the road he's traveling. I thought it was really interesting that Brautigan would include this quirk even in Cameron's dialogue, transforming "one" into "1" to further emphasize Cameron's connection to numbers.

The Hawkline Monster 1

"The two little whores didn't know what was happening. They had never seen anything like this before and they had seen a lot of things. The brunette suddenly covered up her vagina because she was embarrassed" (18).

The language of this novel is very blunt; however, through these straight forward lines, there is a lot of description. The subject matter in this section of the story in particular is very awkward, but the author does not dance around the situation by using metaphors or flowery language. They boldly write exactly what happens without any embellishment. I really like this method as it is not hard to understand exactly what is happening, making it an easy and enjoyable read.

The Hawkline Monster

"Even now Miss Hawkline waited for them in that huge very cold yellow house... in Eastern Oregon... as they were picking up some traveling money in San Francisco's Chinatown by killing a Chinaman that a bunch of other Chinamen thought needed killing. He was a real tough Chinaman and they offered Greer and Cameron seventy-five dollars to kill him." This paragraph stood out to me for two reasons: One being how casually they talk about killing. Greer and Cameron act like it's just a minor inconvenience along the way that they have to kill this guy to get some money. The second thing that stood out to me in this paragraph was how "dumbed" down it was. I'm guessing that Brautigan wrote it this way to show the intelligence level of the two main characters and to make it more realistic to how they thought. I know that I didn't quote this section but I thought it was really strange how Brautigan wrote about the whore house. He described the "whores" as naive and somewhat dirty, but they were just little girls who presumably didn't know any better.

"Magic Child looked out the window at the Columbus River. There was a small boat on the river. Two people were sitting in the boat. She couldn't tell what they were doing. One of the people was holding up an umbrella, though it wasn't raining and the sun wasn't shining either."

This book seems nonsensical, and the characters are wholly absorbed in themselves. The consequences of their actions, such as plotting to kill someone or spending time in a whorehouse, don't affect them at all. They float on through life, without some sort of pattern or meaning. This is exemplified by the metaphor in this passage. The people observed by Magic Child are synonymous with Greer and Cameron- floating through life, not making sense, and not knowing what it is they are doing.

Hawkline Monster part 1

"Cameron was a counter. He vomited nineteen times to San Francisco. He liked to count everything that he did. This made Greer a little nervous when he first met up with Cameron years ago, but now he'd gotten used to it by now. He had to or it might have driven him crazy."

A big theme in this book is insanity vs sanity and fake vs reality. I think it's funny that Greer thought he might go insane if he didn't get used to Cameron's repeated counting. Yet he never refers to Cameron as being crazy. Cameron's counting is a constant reasurrance of facts and reality even when things become supernatural and questionable.

The Hawkline Monster Part 1

"They stood there for a moment with their arms around each other: still laughing. They were the same height and had the same color hair and the same build and the same features and they were the same woman."

Before Miss Hawkline and Magic Child reunited, it was mentioned that one of the characters in the novel believed the two to be twins. At that time, I wondered why the two would try to be so different- dress differently, adapt different names, and in Magic Child's case, pretend to be of a different nationality. Therefore, during that point in the book, I figured that Miss Hawkline and Magic Child tried to find their own identities instead of being the same person. However, when they are reunited, I found out almost right away that my assumptions were incorrect. As they are around each other, their identities form together to create one person with two bodies. This makes me wonder why the two created such different identities in the first place, keeping my interest in the story.

Rose Mellie Rose Response 2

"Yem opened the bottle of sparkling wine. This is the first time I have tasted it. Yem told me to make a wish since this is the first time I have been on a boat and have drunk sparkling wine. I made the wish right away without thinking: a long and happy life for the queen of the fairies."

I chose this quote because I got a magical sense while reading it. I really liked that even though so many disturbing and weird things (to us) happened in the story, this little section kind of takes you away from that. You feel kind of silly reading it and you realize that she really is just a young girl, but she has experienced so many things.

Rose Mellie Rose part II

"I stayed there a long time looking at the ocean, long after the Queen of the Fairies had disappeared over the horizon. And then all of a sudden everything stopped. I had the impression that even the ocean had stopped moving.

I was still on the pier when the fishermen came. They asked me what I was doing there all alone in my wedding dress. So I told them about Yem's leaving and about the channel he wants to follow to the end. The fishermen shook their heads. They say the channel only exists in legends. They think I was wrong to marry Yem. But I do not think like they do. I was right to marry Yem, no matter what the fishermen think. They don't understand anything about the Queen of the Fairies."

I chose this quote because I think that this is an excellent example of how much she values the legends. Throughout the book it seemed to me that she had no emotion, that nothing mattered enough to cause her to react. I thought at first that it was because she valued nothing, but this quote turned me 180 degrees. This quote made me feel like she is extremely emotionally stable. She lingers long after Yem is gone, but she does not fall to pieces. She trusts in the legends and the desire to keep them close. She holds onto them as her only stable piece of identity. I thought it was consistent that she married Yem because he held legend familiarity to her.

"The secondhand man can't really understand Miss Martha, despite his desire to understand."
This quote sounds very poetic and thus stood out to me during the second half of the reading. I can relate because there are some things that happen that I want to understand but cannot, in this novel and in life. The short sentences again set up a fast pace for the reading and it all sort of flies by and is over before you know it. In the first half, it made the narrator's voice seem child-like and naive. In this half, perhaps because she has become more of an adult in her lifestyle--marriage, pregnancy--she no longer sounds like a child to me. Instead, the short sentences give me a sense of dettatchment and apathy, like she is distant from what is going on around her. Another reason why I like this quote is because it reminds me of her, in a way that she really wants to understand everything around her but is unable to fully.

Response to Rose Mellie Rose

"He thinks he knows me because we were together on the bunk in his truck.  I have nothing else to say to him.  Our walk along the beach ended there.  The walk was ruined.  My whole afternoon is ruined." p. 65

I like this quote because it can be true of relationships; the intimacy of sex can indeed get you closer to someone, as it did for the truck driver.  However, it does not mean that you know them, who they truly are.  That also does not mean that you have the right to control them. 

After having sex with the truck driver for a second time, Mellie is angered that he is upset that she will not come with him to the continent, but wants to stay in Oat where her life is.  He says that he thought he knew her.  She seemed as if she would travel far, but it seemed as if she were stuck in Oat all her life now, dwindling it away for nothing too important.

This angers Mellie, as it would anger me.  Lover or not, the truck driver has no right to treat Mellie as such, considering that in reality, they really are not that close.  He does not know here from Eve, really; the only reason that he is asking her to come with him is out of loneliness or attachment.  And even when he's mad at her for refusing, he still gives her his address in hopes that she will change her mind and come to live with him on the continent. 

Rose Mellie Rose

"Mellie wanted to spend her last days lying on her bed in front of the bay window overlooking the ocean"

I found the book's treatment of water interesting, especially with regard to death. Nem dies underwater, the elderly Mellie makes a point of seeing the ocean from her deathbed, and one of Mellie's last sights is of the ocean. I'm not sure if water is just a symbol for change, as flooding influences where the characters choose to live or the ocean acts as a threshold for change between the island and the continent. There is definitely significance to Mellie living on an island. It has an oddness to it—that change surrounds her constantly, through the change and turbulence of the ocean, yet that very barrier of change holds the island in a state of sameness. It separates Oat from that which would change it. In its relation to death, perhaps the water holds an air of possibilities denied or out of reach for life. Water is what the dying could have done—ways they could have changed—that they regret.

post from Mideya

Rose Mellie Rose-- Marie Redonnet

As I read the last half of Rose Mellie Rose and everything started to come together, there was one quote that particulary struck me. It is when Mellie say, "Sometimes I dont kno who Mellie is. Mellie is me. I must not forget that. Fortunately I have my identity card with my photo glued to it." It is almost as if because Mellie has spent so much time in this deserted town and she has so many people she feels she must look after, she forgets who she is. She thinks that the card with her name and her photo on it is all she needs to remember who she is. She feels tha without it, she will lose herself but i think in a way she already has. She keeps losing pieces of herself when those around her keep leaving her.

Rose Mellie Rose Part 2

(I hope I didn't post this too late.)

"The veil grows thicker over my eyes."

Mellie has always had a veil over her eyes. She thought she was in control of her life, but all of her choices have been influenced by others in some way. Though she defies the truck driver, she still keeps her promise to not go to the Dance Palace. She gets engaged and married because it was Yem's idea. Even her decision to have her baby in the grotto was a mimicing of her own birth as Rose told her. In this way, I don't see Mellie as a very independent character. She's had to become an adult very quickly with her circumstances in Oat, but never quite grasped the concept of making decisions for herself. When she dies, the veil of cloudy judgment descends over her eyes, representing how irresponsible she's been.

cass ford & rose mellie rose part ii

"I did not put the sign from the Hermitage up in my new lodgings. You must not mix old and new." -- page 74

There seems to be a lot of differentiating between old and new in this book. The "new" of the continent vs. the old of Oât, old and new alphabets, etc. But things that are supposed to be clearly delineated as old or new often run together, like all the Mellies and Roses.

I don't have much more to say about the text. I liked the second half less, but I don't know exactly why. I don't think there was anything new introduced, like concepts or ideas, or even any major points being made. The ending was not surprising, in fact, it was predictable the minute she started talking about going to the grotto to have the baby. There was also no character change in Mellie by the end of the novel. This is disappointing, but when I think about it, I don't see much of a developed character that could change.

Then I read the explanation on the triptych of stories, and I think it's just reaching, even as a metaphor. Even as a story. I was constantly returning to reality to question how things were happening, like, how does Mellie pay for things? Where does she get food from? Why is a secondhand man being a mayor? Are there seriously only ten people on this island? It just wasn't believable, and not in a good way.

Rose Mellie Rose Part II

"This is the first time I have been pregnant. It is much more important than the first time I had my period."

This post reminded me of the beginning of the book when she first got her period when she was 12. At first this quote seemed dumb to me and extremely obvious, but then I remembered how she had to deal with a death when this happened. It was a hard time for her, she had to leave behind everything she knew. However, even with that said, I am wondering if that was the point of this quote. Maybe it has a deeper meaning as I suspect, but as I re-read the passage I'm wondering if she is just too young to understand the meaning of pregnancy.

Rose Mellie Rose - Tom

"Mellie is me. I must not forget that."

The entire book is extremely eerie. Everything about Rose Mellie Rose has a sort of double edge to it. Except for the fact that the island is dying and so is everyone on it. Like Mellie was found, her daughter Rose will be found as well. But like everyone on the island who has died, Mellie will die alone and pitifully. She had many opportunities to go to the continent and she did not take them. And she could have avoided her death altogether by going to the clinic for her delivery. But it seems she suffers from being a stubborn headed teenager. Not leaving the island and going to the grotto were her ultimate downfalls. But to me, she seems to be an impartial observer who in the end becomes sucked into the story of the island that ends in its death.

Rose Mellie Rose Part 2

“I walk as if I were in a dream. I no longer recognize the path or the forest.”

This passage occurred when Mellie was leaving her baby in the grotto. It is after she left her baby with her gifts. I found it surprising that Mellie would leave her baby in the grotto and leave it up to someone else to take care of Rose. Mellie does show compassion and love for Rose when she leaves gifts such as jewelry but I feel as if Mellie feels an obligation to leave her baby at the grotto; almost as if it is a cultural norm or of religious importance. I think that the passage shows how Mellie does not want to leave Rose at the grotto because she almost looses a sense of reality and the ability to discriminate between things such as a path and forest.

Rose Mellie Rose Part 2

"Beyond the Dance Palace, the Continental is completely dark. It has just closed indefinitely."

Change seems to be a prevalent theme in this novel. Her life is constantly changing, with her transitioning from a child in Rose's house to a wife and mother in Oât. She's doesn't fight change, a lot of the time she favors it, such as when the square is painted pink or when she loses her virginity. Things change for Mellie constantly, and she just goes along with it, as all the other characters seem to. They don't mourn the loss of the fishermen's homes, nor do they seem to care if all the people move to Ot. Change in this books constant, but not important to the characters.

Rose Mellie Rose 2

"I spend my Sundays in the Buick. I go to Seagull Beach more for the Buick than for Cob, who acts as if I did not exist. He didn't care about the Buick now. He is letting it rust and get filled in with sand everywhere."

Mellie seems lost at this point in the book. I think she re-visits the Buick so she has some sense of connection to her past. It reminds her of a time when she was surrounded by people she loved. It makes her feel closer to Yem while he is gone. Her life seems to go in chapters that do not over lap. When people leave her life- they don't come back. Cob was in the last chapter of her life and now she doesn't really talk to him. She seems alone.

Also, I find it interesting that all of the characters have short, simple names: Cob, Yem, Nem, Pim- All very simplistic and similar. In a way, it makes all of the characters seem the same and not unique in any way.

Rose Mellie Rose - Part 2

"The blood is still flowing. It's bad to lose so much blood. What a state the Buick is in."

This is the thing that really kills me about Mellie - she's infuriatingly apathetic about everything she experiences. She comes across as distant and disinterested, even when facing her own death. Does the fact that Mellie still knows so little about the world render her incapable of feeling anything for her own situation? She goes through all of these things that most girls her age don't experience, but there's a distinct lack of believable emotion in this book because the narrator refuses to feel anything for herself.

Rose Mellie Rose part 2

"For my delivery, I will go to the Hermitage."

This story seems very circuitous. Mellie was found as a baby in the grotto and is now leaving her own baby their to be found. I am confused as to why citizens of this society think it's acceptable to leave their babies at the grotto, leaving responsibilities to other people to take care of the baby. It does not make sense to me that Mellie would take matters into her own hands instead of using her resources at the hospital. And throughout this whole process, she has no doubts whatsoever. Her views on the world and what's right or acceptable is alarming.

"This is the first time I have been pregnant. It is much more improtant than the first time I had my period."

Duh, it's more important! The language in this book honestly drives me nuts because she seems so monotone and these are huge life circumstances! What girl would think 'Oh being pregnant is more important than my first period.' I'm sure most girls would have a bigger reaction that Mellie's. Mellie also is a detached character which makes it more disturbing because as a reader, I feel like I'm experiencing all the emotions that she should be having, but the book simply doesn't say it. I'll admit that I felt like this book was incomplete and had an ending that made me feel uneasy. I suppose it was an interesting read, but I think for me, once it enough

Rose Mellie Rose 2

"Rose is sheltered in the grotto. Nothing bad can happen to her" (107).

The grotto in this book seems to be a sacred, almost magical place. Mellie is discovered here by Rose the very day she arrives at the Hermitage, and Rose goes there to die at the beginning of the book. Rose feels a mysterious pull toward the Hermitage and the grotto right before she gives birth to Rose. The grotto is a place for beginnings and endings. The middle happens elsewhere, but the three female characters: Rose, Mellie, and the baby Rose all end up in the same place. The book seems to be a cycle which can first be seen through the title, Rose Mellie Rose. We only get insight into one of the women's lives, but you get the sense that the other to did or will have similar stories to Mellie's.

Rose Mellie Rose

"It's bad enough not knowing the new alphabet and not being registered at the municipal offices, all I needed was to come to Oat a virgin."

I thought this quote was shocking yet extremely interesting. It amazed me how a 12 year old girl could have such mature and broken thoughts. Not only is she concerned about learning the new alphabet and its meaning, but she is concerned about coming to a new place as a virgin. The thoughts she had here were also in order, you can see how first she was concerned with the alphabet, then with her grandmother not wanting her to be registered, and now, thanks to this truck driver, her most recent concern was about being a virgin. I am perplexed by the writing of this story because although we know how young she is, it is almost not surprising to listen to the way this young girl talks. At first I couldn't help but read this as sarcasm. I initially read it this way because I thought this was how she might cope with it, however after reading it over I don't see it that way.

Rose Mellie Rose

"After Miss Martha and I left the Continental, we walked along the boulevard of the port like last Sunday. I talked about Pim. I also told her we went down to the restrooms and what we did in the stall. Miss Martha smiled and said I was the right age for that. She squeezed my arm very hard."

I think this quote intrigued me the most out of what I read. In the world created by the story, it seems like a perfectly acceptable thing for a 12 year old girl to lose her virginity and for her to make no big deal about it- even going on to be grateful for the trucker for taking her virginity. I couldn't figure out if Mellie just didn't know better, or its an acceptable thing in the world of the book- but this paragraph made me think it was the latter. Miss Martha brought her along with her to the dance knowing what was going to happen in the restroom. Did she do this because she already knew that Mellie wasn't a virgin and she needed someone to share her shame with? Or is it a fairly normal thing for little girls to have sex with older men at dance clubs or at all in this world? The sentence that says that Miss Martha told her she was at the right age for sex and then squeezed her arm very hard made me think that she knew what she was doing with Mellie was frowned upon. It would be helpful if we had other character's insight on this whole situation as well, because at this point it seems like the only characters that know about Mellie's sex life are the truck driver, Miss Martha, and Pim; And they all see nothing wrong with it. Mellie never tells Yem about her sexual experience, and the book never even gets into her sexual experiences with him even though he ends up becoming her husband. Was she ashamed to tell him? I don't really think she understood the concept of sex. For her it was as normal as any other human experience.

"I have not forgotten how much I owe the driver. Thanks to him, I am not a virgin anymore. It's bad enough not knowing the new alphabet and not being registered at the municipal offices, all I needed was to come to Oat a virgin."

I thought this quote was extremely strange. It amazed me that she was grateful to the truck driver for basically stealing her virginity. She considered it a relief, a favor. The way the sentences are so practical and unemotional left a lot open to fill with your own thoughts. It made me wonder how being raised with a single person in the falls may have effected this or if it was just the way that she was. I wish that I had more insight into her feelings yet I liked how quickly the actions moved along without the necessity of a bunch of fluffy emotional detail.

"The truck driver kept caressing me. I let him go on. I did everything like the truck driver wanted. I wanted to let him go on."

The thing I find most striking thus far in the novel is its language--I can only assue that because it was originally written in French and then translated, that is the reason for its apparent simplicity and redudancy. The sentence structures are all much the same; there is little to no variation; a lot of times it seems to be a very reptitive way of speaking. The quote I chose showcases that well. It some ways it starts to get a bit annoying after awhile, but in others it makes the speaker come alive. Like this quote, both in its meaning and in the way its said, it expresses (along with the "simple" language of the novel) Mellie's girlhood and apparent simplicity/naivety as well. Perhaps it is because it was translated, or perhaps it was written that way and in French the sentences would still read as reduddant. Either way, it is a good example of character language.

Rose Mellie Rose and Perceptions

“Mellie 3175 is a funny name to say who I am.”

This book’s exploration of the significance of names really stood out to me. The names of the characters, the repetition of names, the names of streets, and the confusion surrounding names emphasize the importance—or the perceived importance—of titles. The characters all lack last names and some of them are only referred to by titles—the truck driver and the photographer. Characters are thus objectified in a sense. They are known by their purpose to others, specifically to the Mellie. This treatment of names points to legitimacy/importance of human individuality and its relevance. Through Mellie, readers see very clearly the disparities between perspectives of the townspeople, but are left to determine their significances along with the still-learning narrator. There were so many Mellie’s that Nem remembers, but this fact doesn’t seem to bother the narrator much. The narrator, however, notices the oddness in her 3175 identification. The power of names draws on the book’s focus on representations and values in language and pictures and how those change from person to person. Nem’s perception of language is drastically different than anyone else’s, he sees Rose in pictures that Mellie does not, and he Mellie in Rose, Rose in Mellie, Mellie in Mellie, as he confuses the names. All of these elements he sees around identity define him more than the people he identifies.

post from Mideya

I really like this book so far. I love the authors use of language and how it is told through this obviously uneducated 12 year old girl. I also really like how the text seems to almost skip around and be repetitive at points because it makes the reader believe the narrator is a 12 year old girl even more. One quote in particular struck me though. When she says, "Thanks to him, I am not a virgin anymore." This just shows how deeply naive the main character/ narrator really is. She whole-heartedly believes that this random stranger did her a favor by basically raping her. It almost makes me dislike Rose just for the simple fact that she didn't teach Mellie any better before she left her.

Rose Mellie Rose

"It's bad enough not knowing the new alphabet and not being registered at the municipal offices, all I needed was to come to Oât a virgin."

I kind of laughed when I read this line, because the tone of the sentence made it sound like Mellie was some cliché preteen girl who, having moved to a new town, is worried about not fitting in with the cool kids. She's flung into this unfamiliar environment, but she comforts herself with the fact that she's no longer a virgin because at the very least people won't view her as inexperienced. I found it funny that she saw her virginity as a burden, a sign of her unpreparedness; she was glad to be rid of it because, in her naive mind, losing it gave her a sense of worldliness.

Rose Mellie Rose

"I have not forgotten how much I owe the driver.  Thanks to him, I am not a virgin anymore."

I find this to be a relatively disturbing quote.  In our society, having sexual intercourse at the age of twelve is very much frowned upon.  Therefore, I instinctively found this relatively offensive and disturbing.  However, I suppose that this idea can make sense in the sense of the natural human body.  That is, when a woman starts her period, that means that her body is ready to finally reproduce and that she actually should be having sex.  Perhaps this is why the author has the child have sex the day that she starts her period.  Perhaps in the society of the book, when a woman comes opf age, reproduction is expected of her.

cass ford & rose mellie rose

"This is the first time I have been dressed all in red." - page 43

In this quote, the operative words are "been dressed"-- making it seem more like Miss Martha had dressed her than she had dressed herself, and in a metaphorical sense, she had. Miss Martha dressing Mellie in red and taking her to the tea dances was more of Miss Martha offering Mellie sexually than Mellie was offering herself. When Miss Martha said Mellie was the right age for what she was doing, I was like, "What the fuck is wrong with this woman? Also, how does she run every freaking operation on the island?"

Mellie's weird. She doesn't act or react like a 12 year old should, and I don't think the language in the book is much like a 12 year old. Most of her emotions are expressed through metaphor and imagery-- for example, first the red dress, then the white-- moving from passion to innocence as she becomes disenchanted with the teas. Another example would be the blood stain left on the trucker's seat after he rapes her.

I don't think Mellie is a whore. When you grow up in a certain environment, it takes time to realize and separate what is normal or maladaptive about that environment later. She is doing what she has been taught to do. Whenever she has a sexual encounter, she says she does everything the man wants her to do, which she obviously must think is right or normal (after all, Miss Martha does it). I don't think she feels true pleasure or passion with these encounters. It's not like she's going around with a burning passion in her loins or something. Things just happen to her. I'm sure the psychological trauma will catch up with her in a few years.

I also don't really like the language the book uses. I find it so plain and redundant that it seems one-dimensional. I doubt it's the translation from French to English, because it's not like French lacks the language to describe concepts contained in the English language. French practically lent itself to the entire lexicon of abstract English words and expressions. The simplistic nature of the language might just be characteristic of someone incredibly traumatized, but maybe the author is just bad at pretending to be 12.

Rose Mellie Rose--Part 1

"And now that I have had my first period and I am not a virgin anymore, I am a young girl."

Mellie thinks that by losing her virginity, she is now a more complete person. Sex, actually, seems to be a theme in this story--she has sex with the man in the truck, and also the men in the bathroom. But she is only twelve years old; far too young for people to begin having sex in this culture. I don't understand why this seems to be accepted, it's even stated that she is a minor in this culture. The island of Oât is a very strange place.

Rose Mellie Rose

"I have not forgotten how much I owe the driver."

This particular quote is very disturbing and says a lot about Mellie. I think that the passage shows how Mellie represents innocence and ignorance. She was obviously not raised properly and lacks the judgement to know she was raped. She somehow believes that she owes the driver something when he took advantage of her. The passage shows how parenting is so important and that kids need to be watched until an age more mature than 12. Young people lack the maturity to know what is right and I believe that it is those who raised Mellie who are responsible for her actions and lack of conscience.

Rose Mellie Rose Response

"I am not a virgin anymore. Rose never told me I should stay a virgin."

From this quote, I feel like she really isn't listening or caring about herself, but only other people. She only cares what seems right to Rose, and not herself. She says that Rose never told her to stay a virgin, having the readers assume that if Rose told her to stay a virgin she would. I thought it was a little disturbing how she really didn't think for herself. even when she was with the truck driver. It seems like she a girl who is really being controlled by outside sources, and not her own thinking.

Rose Mellie Rose-Part 1

"I also talked about Pim. I also told her we went down to the restrooms and what we did in the stall. Miss Martha smiled, she said I was the right age for that."

This line really made me feel uneasy. This woman is a horrible influence on Mellie, even though I will say, she was a little to whore-like to begin with. Mellie thinks that having sex somehow makes her more mature. People keep telling her that she looks older that what she really is, and it's engrained in her head that she must also act older as well. Even though she thinks she is more mature, her language used throughout the story is very plain and not mature. We can still tell that she is young throughout the book just by the way she describes people and her thoughts about them. I think that Mellie has had to grow up too fast and she doesn't fit in with anyone in Oat because there is no mention of people having any children.

Rose Mellie Rose

"I told her that I am not a child anymore since I have had my first period and I am not virgin. She smiled, she said that still doesn't mean I am not a child" (40).

Mellie has a very naive and ignorant way of looking at the world. She only understands growing up in a physical sense. Throughout the novel she comments that Rose and others tell her that she is very developed for her age. Mellie believes she is growing up because she is physically maturing: she started her period, lost her virginity, and started growing her womanly figure. She does not consider her mental or emotional growth as maturing. Miss Martha tries to tell her that it takes more than physical growth to be considered an adult.

Rose Mellie Rose

As much as that whole "thanks for raping me" thing creeped me out as well, I'll go off in another direction. The sentence structure of this book is definitely particular, as much as one can tell from a translation. I studied French in high school and have to read a lot of translated works this semester (from Ancient Greek, though, not French), so I latched onto the language of the main character and tried to analyze it. We don't know where this story takes place, but it's most likely some island off the coast of backcountry 1980s France. The "continent" they speak of is most likely Europe, and the alphabets must be different versions of French. The language in the story has a naive quality that comes across very well even through the language barrier, probably because it's so purposefully simple and straightforward. Mellie seems to have almost no personality of her own, since her narration comes across as purely objective notes about the experiences she has never had until this point in her life. French is a pretty indirect language, so letting this character speak in first person and pulling it off is a testament to Redonnet and Stump both.

Rose Mellie Rose

"I am happy the truck driver gave me his address... I have not forgotten how much I owe the driver. Thanks to him, I'm not a virgin anymore."

This quote, along with some others and certain aspects of the book, really disturbed me. I think it is ridiculous that Mellie let him do that to her without question, and then she is under the delusion that she actually owes him for doing that to her. It makes me question the way she was raised, because I would think her naivety would cause her to be scared or unsure about what is going on, but she willingly accepts what he does to her. On top of that, Miss Martha says she is at the "right age" to be having sex with guys in bathrooms. I am wondering what sort of society they live in...

Rose Mellie Rose

"Thanks to him I am not a virgin anymore"

This quote reveals the depth to which Mellie has become deluded by living with Rose for the first 12 years of her life. She does not realize that what the truck driver did to her was rape and that she was taken advantage of. Instead she focuses on the fact that it made her feel good. And if you haven't been taught otherwise, at age 12, why would you think differently? I believe this is only the first instance of the reader observing such evil through the eyes of an innocent child. The point is not necessarily what is happening to the child, but the fact that her innocence is juxtaposed with the evil acts of the OAT towns people.

Briar Rose 2

"Ah, but remember, said the leper, opening his robes, and, as though in parody, peeling off a wafer of flesh from his diseased chest, physical beauty is only this deep and lasts but a brief season, while spiritual beauty lasts forever."

In the retelling which this quote appears, Beauty is forced to choose between a crazy old man, a holy leper, and a foolish/naive, yet beautiful, young man. I like this quote because I find it to be mostly true and because beauty wanted it to be the young attractive one. Of course she hoped this without knowing the specific traits of the others but it is true for all of us that our first impressions are formed based on visible features. It is human nature to do so but not always the best course of action to take, especially because outward beauty is no indication of spiritual righteousness.

Briar Rose 2

"She lies alone in her dusty bedchamber atop the morbid bed. Perhaps she has never left it, her body anchored forever here by the pain of the spindle prick, while her disembodied self, from time to time, goes aimlessly astray, drifting through the castle of her childhood..."

I think this passage is interesting because after all the repetition we still are not sure if much time has passed at all. Have these past stories been dreams that come and go in a split second? This quote makes me think of when I have a dream. It seems like hours and hours go by, yet I can be asleep for only a few minutes. Her dreams within dreams are getting old. She seems to be living out her life in a long dream. I think this quote might be hinting at the fact that she may never really awaken.

Briar Rose Response

"She lies alone in her dusty bedchamber atop the morbid bed. Perhaps she has never left it, her body anchored forever here by the pain of the spindle prick, while her disembodied self, from time to time, goes aimlessly astray, drifting through the castle of her childhood, in search of nothing whatsoever, except perhaps distraction from her lonely fears (of the dark, of abandonment, of not knowing who she is, of the death of the world), which gnaw at her ceaselessly like the scurrying rodents beneath her silken chemise "

I chose this quote because i think you really get a good sense of what her life is like. I liked that the first part really related to the classic disney version of sleeping beauty, but then it goes off explaining her life with a twist. I think it does a really good job of enlightening us on how she feels and it brings color to the story.

Briar Rose 2

"He has left the crone's ointment back in his saddlebag, but he won't need it, even were it what the old fraud claimed it to be: the branches part gently, the fragrant petals caress his cheeks. He is surprised how easy it is. How familiar. He feels, oddly, like he's coming home again. It is not the castle, no, nor the princess inside (perhaps he will reach her and disenchant her with a kiss, perhaps he will not; it matters less than he'd supposed), but this flowering briar patch, hung with old bones, wherein he strives. I am he who awakens Beauty, the bones seem to whisper as the blossoms enfold him."

(I know its a little late to post this, but I just could not get my computer to work last night.) I chose this quote because I feel like it brought the story together in the end. The line, "He is surprised how easy it is," is used on the first page of the text and I think that using it at the end like Coover did was a good way to kind of loop the story around into an ending. The story itself is difficult to end because it is nothing but repetition of the same event over and over again; so, how do you come up with a conclusion for something like that? By ending almost the same as the beginning, it was like Coover was resetting the loop- like it was all going to start again. You don't really know how the story ends, its all left open for interpretation. The prince may or may not have rescued the princess. This story could have different meanings for anyone that read it.

Briar Rose II

"Now that I am awake, she says, the truth is more hidden than before. Her mirrored eyes meet his: When will this spell be broken?"

I chose this quote because it very nicely describes the cycle this story seems to take. When will this spell be broken? When will my true prince come? Well, it already has been broken, several times. The princess has been awoken and awoken and awoken and still she is sleeping. It's a never-ending cycle. When will this story be over? In many ways it was finished halfway through, and in many other ways it can never be over, because it is all just repeating.

Briar Rose Part II

"She is just as he imagined her: beautiful, gentle, innocent, devoted, submissive. He is suffused with love and desire, but he also feels like he would like to take a nap."

I chose this quote because It is all about the idea of the ideal woman. I think it is the perfect stereotypical quote for both genders. Of course women are expected to be all these things, which are supposed to invoke love and desire. The cliche fairy tale cookie cutter image of a woman...so impossible yet still so desired and chased. I think its funny because it is true, what happens after the happily ever after? Do the characters nap? what happens when the carriage rolls away? I like the idea of stretching the fairy tale molds. It really causes you to think about the stories possibilities.

cass ford & briar rose, part ii

"Today... I saw a strange thing. I saw a plucked goose flying. It flopped into my room where I was sleeping or else lying awake and said to me: You will never awaken because the story you were in no longer exists. Oh yes? He is thinking about the quest that brought him here. Has he made his name then?... Or has he perhaps come to the wrong castle? When she says, perhaps not for the first time, that, even when sitting in the same room with him, she feels like she's all alone, he realizes his mind has been elsewhere. I'm sorry, my love, he says. What is your heart's desire? To live happily ever after, she replies without emotion. Of course, he replies, it's yours for the asking. And also I wonder if you'd mind watching the babies for a while? Babies--?!" -page 66

Yes, this quote is insanely long, but there is so much to unpack from it. The content of the conversation, manner in which it is directed, and how it is received on either end are all important aspects to consider. The two are absorbed in their own thoughts. It is easy to feel sorry for the princess feeling alone (because the prince isn't listening), but the topic of her own conversation is just as selfish as the prince's private thoughts. He is preoccupied with the past: he wonders if he has made a name for himself, and he wonders if he is in the wrong castle. The "wrong castle" to me is like a metaphor for relationships. Today, we would ask if we are with whom we are meant to be. The princess's reply lacking emotion to "live happily ever after" is contradictory. What is living "happily" ever after? Wouldn't emotion be just as flat without suffering to put it into perspective? I interpreted the "Babies--?!" as being said by the prince, as a sort of "What babies?" comment. Perhaps he thinks it is a ridiculous request, or perhaps the babies being referred to are the ones she had before this prince came. If it's the latter, the prince's reaction speaks to how the princess is viewed for her sexuality, as if there is an expectation for her to remain pure and faithful to him, even in the past. Even more to consider: why is the goose plucked? What does it mean that her story is over? Is it because she is now with her prince, and the importance is lost? This novella raises more questions than it answers, but I think that is exactly how it was intended to be.

Briar Rose 2

"... clothed in little more than tangled flaxen strands and furiously stabbing herself over and over with the spindle. Ah, such a desire to sleep again..."

When I read this quote towards the end of the book, it triggered my memory to other parts of Briar Rose when characters would tell Beauty that she is the lucky one- being able to sleep, not having to deal with the world, etc etc. This is obviously a very cynically view on life, and makes me wonder whether or not Coover truly stands behind this opinion or not. It's as if we are given two sides- 1) Live life, while not only experiencing happiness and triumph, but also evils, sadness, and disappointments. Or 2) Don't live life at all (in fact, sleep through it) so you don't have to deal with being let down or failing. This section opens my eyes to the negativity the author and the character both have towards things that have happened in their life, causing them to not want to deal with it anymore.

Briar Rose 2

"As he enters the hall, engulfed in pain, he realizes he has arrived at the perilous edge of the world and that from this entering there will be no departing. Help! he howls. Wake up! Get me out of here!"

I like how this time it seems as though the prince is dreaming. We see that he is just as trapped as Rose, maybe not through sleep, but in his mind while he slashes though the briars. When he cuts the briars, its almost metaphorical for the all of the crone's fake Sleeping Beauties that he tries to get though to find his true love. And Rose keeps destroying the fairy's fake princes because all she wants is her true prince. I guess what find frustating is that we see them fighting so hard through their illusions to get to each other, and they're so close, but they never meet. Coover is trying to tell us that in order to find love, we have to wake up and see past our illusions, we have to accept that love isn't always happily ever after. Reality, thats what we have to accept, and love can't become real if we are under a spell of another person's influence and not our own.

Briar Rose

"Why do you always suppose every story is about you?"

I find that people most frequently associate themselves with the main or title character. Though there are the odd ones who prefer Bellatrix Lastrange to Harry Potter, the general populace seems to want the story to be about someone like them, just like Briar Rose does in this book. People seem to need to make themselves the main characters, needing to be important enough to be considered a main character. Briar Rose's desire is, however, sensible, since she has limited access to the outside world.

Briar Rose 2

"The fairy recognizes that many of her stories, even when by her lights comic, have to do with suffering, often intolerable and unassuaged suffering, probably because she truly is a wicked fairy, but also because she is at heart (or would be if she had one) a practical old thing who wants to prepare her moony charge for more than a quick kiss and a wedding party, which means she is also a good fairy, such distinctions being somewhat blurred in the world she comes from" (60).

This section of the story really made me analyze how I felt about the fairy. Are her actions and words geared toward helping Rose by preparing her for her future or is she just telling her scary stories to be spiteful. I think that the fairy is good. Throughout the book, she is the one constant character for Rose. Even her parents are shown as bad people, but the fairy appears to stop the bad things or tell stories of what could happen to her. I think that although the way she speaks may be sinisterly tinted, what she does is for Rose's benefit. The fairy is like a mother figure for Rose. She wants to protect her by teaching her that the world is not always a fairy tale and there is no real happily ever after.

Briar Rose part 2- Alex

"Once upon a time, she says with a curling smile, her wicked side as usual taking over, there was a handsome prince and a beautiful princess who lived happily ever after. But that's terrible! cries Rose." -Coover

The end of the story seems to create an infinite loop of story-lines that can occur after the supposed "Happily Ever After". The story ends how it begun, with a prince determined to fulfill his destiny by awakening Beauty in the magical tower. However, in Beauty's unstable subconscious she is the disgruntled wife, left at home, not understanding her husband's restlessness and desires to seek his name. Just as the story asks "What is desire?" it also contests what happiness truly is. Does Beauty actually want to wake up, or does she fear the possibility of her life with her prince more than she does the snares of her own mind? In the quote I picked, Briar Rose's perception of the 'correct' ending for a story has warped from her idealistic notion of 'happily ever after' to seeing the auspicious ending as something to dread or fear. Coover has flipped the notion of 'happy' into a fear of complacency, just as he flipped "Sleeping Beauty" into a story about stories.

Briar Rose 2

She never wakes up. The prince doesn't reach her. The book ends essentially at the beginning of the narrative, giving a bit more background to the prince's motives and Briar Rose's existence in eternal sleep. Somehow I feel like this is a satisfying ending, though. Normally, stories have to have some kind of conclusion that wraps up the conflict and pays off the reader's expectations. But that's really the question, isn't it? Did we, as readers, expect Rose to wake up at the end?

I personally didn't expect her to, nor was I surprised that the prince never reached the castle. Rose has had so many false awakenings that didn't turn out well and the prince has imagined just about every possible way he could interact with her once he finds her - imagination overcomes reality here. If the event ever actually happened in the narrative, we readers would invariably have been disappointed because anything we can imagine would be more exciting or romantic or lusty or frightening. With such a circular, dream-like story, the chosen ending (if that's what it can be called) is a smart choice.

Briar Rose

"Of course, dark as it is, he might not be able to see all this, though, as he imagines it, dawn is breaking and, as he pushes aside the ancient drapes (he has already, hands now at her knees, pushed them aside, they turned to dust at his touch)..."

I think this quote is interesting because this is again a variation in Coover's repetition. The idea of the Princess's thighs being spread open has been talked about previously when Coover mentions how the branches "part like thighs". The underlying idea of sex is expressed in an innocent way giving it the feeling of a fairy tale. The reader continually feels suspense thinking that the Prince has reached the sleeping beauty, but each time things fall apart. In this quote her body turns to dust at his touch and he loses her again.

Briar Rose quote

"..but that she doubts that her prince will ever come suggests she underestimates her own legendary beauty and its power to provoke desire in men."

I chose this quote because I find it original that Coover would point out deep feeling in the "princess". Usually you see this picture of a princess with no real feeling only oblivious beauty. I like the idea that the princess could doubt her fate. How could she be sure he would come? What if she wasn't pretty enough or desirable at all? I have questioned things I was told to believe my whole life and I know those tempting thoughts full of doubt.

Briar Rose

"In spite of all the fairy's promises and reprimands, when the little ninny's not bewailing her fate, she is doubting it, or if not doubting, dreading it, afraid of what she longs for."

This quote was interesting to me, especially the last bit--"afraid of what she longs for"--explaining that she is conflicted between her rationalities and her desires, trapped in a constant tug and pull of her own emotions.

I also particularly liked the beginning--"yet another inflated legend"--sort of giving it a Don Quixote feel. While I think this will be an interesting read, I can help but wonder, why all the fairy tale stories? What's it about fairy tales that makes us want to retell them again and again, and why are we reading them all in this class? I think it's very interesting how this applies to creative writing. This story, however, seems to be a wonderful refresher after Bloody Chamber, as a retelling of Sleepy Beauty seems far less common than retelling Red Riding Hood a million times.

Briar Rose

"Ah, the beautiful: what a deadly illusion! Yet, still he is drawn to it."

It seems like the theme of beauty being something "deadly" is common in a lot of the types of stories I like to read. Many times if a character is described as strikingly beautiful, they would use that to their advantage to get what they wanted or to manipulate others. I agree that beauty can be a "deadly illusion." Isn't it a reoccurring life lesson that true beauty comes from within? Or that just because someone is lovely on the outside, there is no guarantee that this stays true for the inside?

Confusion and Briar Rose

“Yes, yes, I can see him! No, you can’t, he was completely swallowed up by the briars. A pity, but it was too late. No! Hurry! Here I am! It’s not too late!” (24)

My favorite element of Briar Rose thus far has been Coover’s ever-confusing discourse. This passage is just one rapid-fire example of the book’s fascinating contradiction and ambivalence. The omniscient third person narrator switches perspectives quite often, so even though the narrator remains a constant, he offers splitting views of his story-views far removed from each other and so somewhat jarring and disorienting to the reader. The speakers are also at times difficult to differentiate and follow, so much so that the reader could wonder whether the narrator or one of two of the other characters is speaking. This style of confusion emphasizes the uncertainty and ambiguity of the story and seems to challenge the discrepancies between dream and reality, sleep and awake, story and prophecy. He offers no clear guideline for what to take literally, so every word is in question—every sentiment is malleable, every moment a lifetime yet still no time at all, every wakening a dream or a story or a memory. I have a hard time deciding what to make of it all, but I feel it speaks to a look at the ‘what we’re supposed to be.’ The sleeper asks, “Who am I? she demands. What am I?” (17). Her struggle might be with expectations of living up to sexual expectations and motherly expectations, symbolized in the many dead and living children she has while comatose. The adventurer sees her with lust, then in a friendly sense, as he also struggles with how to see his quest and himself as a hero. His struggle may lie in wanting to be “the one” while beginning to see those very efforts to make him just like the failed men whose shells he sees on his path.

Briar Rose- Alex

"And they lived happily ever after? How could they, the dragon was dead. No, I mean the princess and the--Oh, who can say? The prince had other tasks and maidens to attend to, making a name for himself as he was, for all I know, my dear, that one's chained there still."

I think one of the main messages in the story is the dissonance between reality and the happenings of fairy tales. Each time the princess wanders in and the crone tells a tale in which the ending isn't happy, she insists that that's not how the story is supposed to end. However, the princess is living in a 'dream,' and not just her 100 year enchantment. Most young girls grow up on the idea of the ideal male figure; something that is impossible to reach and hopeless to look for. Like the prince can never truly make it to the spires of her castle, the romantic ideals set in fairy tales are unrealistic hopes of idealistic dreamers. The repetition of lines is also a metaphor for the passing down of the tale, of the unreachable ideal, from generation to generation. No generation really remembers the reality of love, identity, and sexual intimacy, and so the lie is perpetuated for even longer than the 100 year fictional enchantment.

Briar Rose - Tom

"Caught in the briars , but still slashing away valiantly, driven more by fear now than by vocation..." (Coover 28).

The hero's quest for Beauty is driven by his desire and apparently by his vocation. Many think of their vocation as who or what they are and as such, accept tasks given to them as being a part of them. The question that I believe rises from this quote, is whether he is seeking Beauty because he genuinely wants to, or because he believes it is his job to. If it is his desire, the tale is one of introspection and deep personal reflection. If it is his vocation, the tale may be one of societal pressures and influences on personal desire. I believe Briar Rose explores the former subject and the hero will come to realize that it is him who in the end wants her.